Posts by Merry Magdalene

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

And this is also interesting to me:

As to the authenticity of these reports, it may be noted that the compilers of the books of Hadith did not apply the same stringent tests when accepting reports relating to historical matters as they did before accepting reports relating to the practical teachings and laws of Islam. The reason is that the former type of report was regarded as merely of academic interest while the latter type of report had a direct bearing on the practical duties of a Muslim and on what was allowed to them and what was prohibited. Thus the occurrence of reports such as the above about the marriage of Aisha in books of Hadith, even in Bukhari, is not necessarily a proof of their credibility.
Determination of the true age of Aisha
It appears that Maulana Muhammad Ali was the first Islamic scholar directly to challenge the notion that Aisha was aged six and nine, respectively, at the time of her nikah and consummation of marriage. This he did in, at least, the following writings: his English booklet Prophet of Islam, his larger English book Muhammad, the Prophet, and in the footnotes in his voluminous Urdu translation and commentary of Sahih Bukhari entitled Fadl-ul-Bari, these three writings being published in the 1920s and 1930s. In the booklet Prophet of Islam, which was later incorporated in 1948 as the first chapter of his book Living Thoughts of the Prophet Muhammad, he writes in a lengthy footnote as follows:
.... http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm (read the rest for more details)

There does not appear to be absolute certainty how old Aisha was at the time of consummation, but it is generally agreed that she was old enough in terms of the time and place in which she lived, and that marriage at the onset of puberty has not been an uncommon practice in a broad span of cultures and times.

Paedophilia and child abuse is not something I can support or defend, especially not in the name of God, so it was important to me to discover the truth of the matter. I have been praying about it, expressing my desire for the truth (whatever it might be and wherever it might lead). Someone had tried to explain it to me before, but it was not enough for me, and I had done searches before but they did not turn up this amount and type of information. Typing in the phrase 'age of consent' along with aisha helped. It is food for thought.

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

'Morning, LT~

That is interesting and not something of which I was aware. I did a quick search and found this

http://www.towardsislam.com/dan_1988/2006/02/why-did-prophet-muhammed-marry-aisha.html

which happens to mention

The Campaign To Raise The Age Of Consent, 1885-1994 ( http://womhist.binghamton.edu/teacher/aoc.htm)

[note the education domain] states: "American reformers were shocked to discover that the laws of most states set the age of consent at the age of ten or twelve, and in one state, Delaware, the age of consent was only seven ."

and also addresses the issue of paedophilia.

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

I apologize, Zeroday, for not responding directly to your comments as they are not entirely clear to me. I think I get the general idea, but not enough to frame a reply.

Hillary Step: Can I ask, what do you put this experience down to, now that you are a Muslim?

Sure, no problem. I have to say that this was a hard one for me to be honest with myself about as I was very attached to my mystical 'experiences' both as a Pagan and a Christian. Now I would agree with you that they can't be relied on to prove anything. It seems to me that they can lock you into a sort of closed cycle of an (oft times hidden) belief or desire creating an experience, with the experience in turn being used to further create and support the initial belief and/or desire. I don't know about the chemical aspect of it, though.

I did not have a similar 'experience' in becoming a Muslim, although I have had some 'incidents' since then. I remain more detached from them now. I don't take them and run with them, so to speak. I wish I could speak more clearly on this. It's a little difficult to find the words. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I find that if I keep these things to myself or limit conversation to those who feel the same way I do, it becomes easier to lapse into laziness and even dishonesty with myself. Although I guess that can also be a danger when feeling constantly on the defense. I feel like this thread is striking a nice balance and I appreciate that.

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

Ahhh, that was beautiful, LT.

And I'm glad you're back, WAC, cos I didn't know how to respond to ""

LT: WAC:
You have a set of beliefs, yourself, even if you don't call them "religion". Why do you choose to limit yourself?

That's kinda what I was going to say, but then again isn't "limited" a lot like "confined?"

LT: Your soul is too celtic to remain confined for long...

Or am I missing an important distinction?

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

Euphamism: First off, kudos for converting to Islam in a tiny town in Northern Idaho. You obviously aren't too concerned with what people think of you. Or maybe you enjoy being different. I am generally of the opinion that I don't do things just for the sake of being different, I need a better motivation than that, yet I do kind of like being different. I've have also always been concerned with what people think of me; I crave understanding and acceptance, and there is a part of me that wishes I could please everyone all the time. But I try not to allow that to control my decisions, to run my life or even to interfere too much. Seeking to please God above all else has been a good antidote, I think.
Question, though... how can you really say that this is not driven by emotion, unlike your previous religious experiences? I have no doubt that you have found something positive and fulfilling within the Islamic tradition, and part of that seems to be the explicit disavowal of personal fulfillment. (Narkissos has written some great stuff in the past about the appeal of self-renunciation; mostly in a Christian/JW context, but it sounds similar to what you are doing now as well.) I maintain that my present experience and conversion was not driven by emotion although it does contain an emotional component. I don't think I disavow personal fulfillment, Islam is not about asceticism, but I do not make it my main focus and the criteria by which I guide my actions. That is the difference.
OTOH, can you fully say that you accept Islam as an intellectual proposition? If you've read through the Quran several times, you realize that it contains not only the many positive quotes from the site that you linked to, but also many quotes that I suspect you disagree with (e.g. the infamous 'fight and slay the pagans wherever you may find them' (9:5); fornicators or adulterers should be flogged with a hundred stripes (24:2); condemnation of homosexuality; etc). The scholars of Sharia and Wahabbism can support their position from the Quran just as eloquently as the more liberal Muslims can. I am still studying and researching what you mention here, but I can tell you that balance and context is essential for understanding and acceptance and translation of these matters into daily modern life and law.
Even slavery--you say that the Quran discouraged slavery, but still allowed it. That is understandable given its historical context. But if the book is so dependent on historical context, how can you say that it is "what everyone thinks God, in theory, should have given to mankind but didn't"? Shouldn't the book that God gives, if there is such a thing, be good for all times and places? I do believe it is good for all times and places, and soon I hope to do an in depth investigation into this subject, as well as a couple others. I believe the instructions as they were given would naturally lead to a phasing out of the slavery that then existed, at least for those who understood and implemented the guidance therein.

Thanks for all the comments and questions. As I hope you can tell, I don't have all the answers, but I am not afraid of questions, my own or anyone elses, and I am pleased to be able to hold a reasonable discussion about it. I am not offended by your feelings, thoughts and perspectives, and I do not feel under attack. There is a difference between attacking someone and challenging them, and I love to be challenged. The other I don't like so much.

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

BluesBrother: Hi Merry, thanks for sharing. Around here it is a cosmopolitan area and in the city it is not uncommon to see women wearing the headgear and dress (forgive my calling it that but I do not know the correct names) I think you are brave and committed to do so in a small American town. Thanks for that. I wish I could get out and travel a bit. I've always wanted to do. My personal experience in this regard is very limited adn I have yet to meet another Mualim in person. I do have an online friend, an American convert to Islam, who is hoping we can make arrangements to get me to Jordan one of these days for a visit. She has a home there as well as in the US.
My superficial reading of Islam has shown me that it is a world away from many peoples perception of it . Moderate Islam is surely a force for good in people's lives. That was my take on it as well.
If you are happy with it, I am sure that God is happy with you too.

.

lonelysheep: Do you think your treatment would be different if your skin color was? I've never been to Idaho, and in this part of NJ, it's no big deal.

I don't know. Growing up, the only racial diversity I saw was cowboys (loggers, etc.) and Indians. There was a lot of prejudice against the Indians here (on and near the Niimiipoo rez) and I heard some very strange ideas about "black people" from older folks when I was a teenager. I think there are one or two black families in the immediate area now, a few Mexican families, and maybe a couple of Chinese families. I do wonder what their experience has been here. I have also heard that a Middle Eastern family (from where I do not know) bought or are running a gas station in the next town over and locals were referring to them as terrorists and Muslims.

RichieRich:
What an awesome story Merry. Thanks Rich! That means a lot to me.
I see a lot of loose parallels between the path I have chosen and the path you have chosen...
its a challenge to get people to look past their own ignorance and accept your decision
weird / concerned looks in public (I'm making an assumption on your behalf)
family and friends and who aren't involved in it with you think you're crazy / loosing it
Let me know if I'm wrong, but if I'm right, I can empathize with you. I read your Interesting Occurence! I have to say, worlds apart and yet we understand each other (at least to some agree). This world needs more empathy!

unbeliever: When I first read you had converted I felt you traded in one high control cult for another high control cult. Understandable. I think it is a misunderstanding but an understandable one. I read your journal entries on myspace. Very informative reading from your prospective. I am friends with a couple of ex muslims and they don't have very many positive things to say about the religion. I would be interested in knowing their experiences. I don't believe that women have as much freedom of choice as you have been led to believe. I just hope for you and your daughters sake that your experience with Islam stays a positive one. I hope so too, but, whatever happens, I intend to learn from the good as well as the bad. Rest assured that I am a fiercely protective and loving mother. My experiences with men and family and religion outside of Islam have been a mixed bag, and I am guarded against repeating past mistakes, so I appreciate your good wishes.

jeanniebeanz: I didn't respond to this one for a while, didn't know what to say really. Personally, I like you, but I am all religioned out and think it is all a method to control and/or divide people. But, if it works for you...{{{jeannie}}} I like you too. Personally, I don't think religion itself is a method to control and/or divide people in a negative sense but can certainly be used that way by unscrupulous people. I think both individuals and societies need certain controls and divisions for their well-being.

~Merry

29

Do I sound bitter?.....(email to mom)

by *jeremiah* in

on a mac, i hope this formats correctly.

my 1st email and question:

(salutations)

Merry Magdalene

No, I don't think you sounded bitter. Hers is probably a conditioned response--anyone who asks questions that in any way call into question what JWs are doing or how they are doing it are seen as a threat. Asking them to think about things that the WT hasn't directed them to think about is a threat. But, to be honest, we do have ulterior motives when asking such questions and they do rightfully pick up on that. What they don't realize is that our motives are not usually bad ones, although, because they threaten the established order, they will be perceived that way. It's a sticky situation.

Best wishes,

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

Glitter: You said: It was after I saw a documentary entitled Suffer the Little Children exposing the problem of child molestation coverups in the Society that I went online to see if there was a follow-up on those who had shared their stories. That led me to Silent Lambs, Free Minds, and the Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum. What about Aisha?

What a great question! I'm amazed I didn't make that connection myself as I was writing as I am usually able to anticipate questions and issues from other points of view that may arise. This is an issue that I have found troubling as well and am still researching and pondering. Rather than share where I am with it now, may I get back to you?

~Merry

Thanks for your comments, Black Swan. Best wishes always

Papha:
Thanks for sharing your experience. But I've always been puzzled by the attraction of blacks to the Muslim movement. All down through history, it was the Muslims who enslaved the blacks even well before it was done by white Europeans and continued well after the "slave trade" to the West was discontinued. They were involved in the trafficking of slaves during the entire time. If blacks reject Christianity on the bases of these past abuses, wouldn't it also apply to the Mulims who were in the business long before and long afterwards?

This is something with which I am not familiar and must read more about. All I am aware of so far is that the Qur'an allows slavery but strongly encourages setting slaves free, and "The first call to prayer at the Quba mosque built by Prophet Muhammad was given in 622 by Bilal -- a black slave freed by the Prophet." Racism, or the supposed superiority of one race over another, is not condoned in the Qur'an. I am beginning by reading herebut will read elsewhere as well.

Lisa: all muslimed out!

LOL!

anewme: Somehow I have the feeling this will be but a stepping stone in your religious journey Merry.

You and LittleToe both! Thanks for reading.

Quandry:
Perhaps they are not all this way. Perhaps they do not all hate "infidels" and feel that they must be killed. Just like with the witnesses, not all want to cover over child abuse, etc.
I just don't see it.

So many tragedies in this world! Some areas are so bad. I can understand your feelings, so I hope you will keep looking and discerning that what is wrong in some Muslim societies is contrary to what is taught in the Qur'an. And there are also Muslims pushing for change, for education, for relief and for peace, just as there are many Americans who do not condone the American killing of innocent women, children and elderly in Middle Eastern countries. I can imagine it would be hard in those conditions for people there to see anything good in us, but some still manage to.

~Merry

back in a bit!

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

Zagor/John: How long did you investigate this new religion? I'm still investigating, since last year. I investigated a little before I read the meaning of the Qur'an through the first time (3 translations), and a lot during and after. and what method of investigation did you use? (meaning did you read only pro-Islam literature or did you try looking it from other angles) I used both pro-Islamic and anti-Islamic sources as well as more neutral ones (if there is such a thing). It was important to me to research my questions from as many angles as possible. And being a JWD addict, I had to search out Islamic apostate sites as well, don'tcha know?! You don't have to answer if you feel that goes too far but I would appreciate very much so if you took time to answer. Another subquestion would be, would you change your path if you found something even more revealing in another religion or philosophy? Ok that's three questions :) In order for that to happen, I would have to believe that I had been entirely mistaken about this one, and at this point it would be hard for me to imagine that happening. Not that I doubt I can be mistaken, I have been many times about many things, just that this all fits together and makes sense to me like nothing else has.

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

LittleToe: It sounds like your Turkish friend was as persistent as a JW There are similarities and there are differences. I'm happy with both. This thought also has the makings of a good knock-knock joke.
So you're simply an excessively romantic theist with a penchant for mysticism, as supplied through a foreign language (Arabic), then? I'm in rehab. See above post to Deeskis.
...and with a substitute set of Middle Eastern religious baggage and ancient texts? I don't suppose you'd like to be a gentleman and carry my bags for me, would you?

~Merry